MADISON, Wis. --- A Wisconsin state law is forcing the Madison (Wis.) Catholic Diocese this month to begin offering its employees insurance coverage for birth control.
However, a diocesan spokesman said employees will be warned against using the benefit and that open defiance of Catholic teaching on the issue could ultimately lead to termination.
St. Mary's Hospital in Madison has notified employees that it, too, soon will be required for the first time to cover contraception.
Both entities sought to get around the mandate by becoming self-insured, but the costs proved prohibitive.
The law, which took effect Jan. 1, requires all commercial insurance policies with a drug benefit to cover prescription contraceptives. Self-insured policies are exempt.
The law allowed employers to honor their current insurance contracts until they expire, which is why the diocese had until Aug. 1 to make a decision. Officials decided a self-insured plan wasn't financially feasible, said Brent King, a diocesan spokesman.
The diocese's commercial insurance policy now will offer birth-control coverage, but employees will be expected to employ their consciences in not using it, King said. "If someone were to misuse that freedom in this regard, it could be grounds for termination," he said.
Such a step would be taken only if the employee, after being counseled, refused to get in line with Catholic teaching, King said. "It wouldn't be the first thing we do," he said.
The Catholic Church teaches that contraception is immoral because it diminishes God's role as the giver of life and interferes with the full giving of each spouse to the other.
All diocesan employees sign a morals clause in their job offers saying they will abide by Catholic teaching, so the diocese expects them to follow the prohibition against prescription contraception, King said. He acknowledged that the diocese has no way to police the issue - an employee would have to offer it up, he said.
St. Mary's Hospital, a Catholic-based institution, became self-insured eight months ago to avoid the law. But in a July 27 memo to employees, President Frank Byrne said the switch is proving too costly. Also, many hospital employees are having problems accessing specialty medical care, he said.
Beginning Jan. 1, St. Mary's will return to commercial policies provided by Dean Health Plan and Group Health Cooperative, said Steve Van Dinter, a hospital spokesman. Hospital employees do not sign moral clauses, he said.
Byrne said the hospital will work toward getting a religious exemption inserted into the law.
Chris Taylor, public policy director for Planned Parenthood of Wisconsin, said she is pleased with the turn of events but disappointed that institutions would spend energy trying to thwart the law.
"Birth control is basic health care that 95 percent of women use at some point," she said. "I would hope that we don't have entities - Catholic or otherwise - trying to erect obstacles to health care for their employees."
(51) comments
I'm sure all the loyal Catholics in Wisconsin will fall in line, just like my parents did, NOT!
More Catholic Church absurdity. Along with classifying ordaining women as priests in the same catagory and pedophile priests.
I often wonder why its absurdity only if it is Catholic. Before you talk down about it maybe you should find out why they teach contraception is immoral and while we are on the subject of pedophile priest, maybe we should start naming all the fathers(and mothers who knew their children were being abused), teachers, coaches and other religious ministers as well. If the 2% of Catholic priests that abused children believed and followed what the Church taught - you wuld have nothing to talk about.
I love how health insurance laws can trump the religion's practices, but yet women's rights cannot. So the religion can oust somebody for having an abortion, but yet their health insurance is required by law to pay for it. And I'm sure the health insurance would have to pay for portions of getting cosmetic surgery, a sex change, etc, all sorts of "morally corrupt" things in the view of the church that is employing and paying for the insurance of these people. AND YET a woman can clearly not hold the same job positions as a man (priest being the most obvious) yet these blanketing equal-rights laws seem to not care about women's rights.
I just think that women's rights should be held higher than the right-to-coverage for elective medical stuff. But I also think the religion should be able to choose how it treats women (and therefore FAIL as an antiquated caveman-minded entity, as its members wise up and get with the times) for the sake of keeping the gov't hands-off on religion. So I would rather see that their religion not be forced to pay for insurance costs on anything held against their religion.
This applies to all religions who deal with insurance, when laws require coverage of that which is against their faith. Catholicism just happens to be the example here, and also offers its unequal employment of women as a comparison. I'm sure there are other religions that fit into this same category.
[quote]PKing said: "I often wonder why its absurdity only if it is Catholic. Before you talk down about it maybe you should find out why they teach contraception is immoral and while we are on the subject of pedophile priest, maybe we should start naming all the fathers(and mothers who knew their children were being abused), teachers, coaches and other religious ministers as well. If the 2% of Catholic priests that abused children believed and followed what the Church taught - you wuld have nothing to talk about."[/quote]
Not sure what your point is, but it was more like 4 percent of the priests were pedophiles. Way too many.
Until the catholic cults ADMIT that their sacred and most holy men are abusers and closet gays, nothing will change in this 'religion'. I feel very sorry for these women, men and families that would have to HIDE their choice to NOT have more children, that often cannot be afforded. They could be terminated from their jobs for a personal decision? And of course the catholic cult covers themselves by including it in their hiring contract! Let's talk about all of the catholics that have too many kids and are on welfare and public assistance? Should they be allowed to continue to breed and have kids like the Duggars in Arkansas, a never ending flow of kids raising kids? How is this even considered to be a morally SOUND decision? It's not. EVERYONE has the right to make a choice on the size of family that they want to have, this is a personal decision and should not be the decision of some far flung cult w/ a pseudo nazi leading the whole pack of them!
I agree with you burt - 2%, 4% whatever the true number is it is way too many. Just as the many other abuses where swept under the rug during the 40.50, and 60's - the mentalilty of those times. Whether priests, teachers, parents, ministers - thye will one day stand before the Lord and be held accountable for their sins. (Finally the Church is making stides in preventing and punishing those who contiue to abuse.)To meatgal: if you take a job or join a club you have rules you must follow - if you do not like the rules, then you have the choice to not take the job or join the club. Whatever faith you may be - their job is to save souls. Not a popular thing these days. So, if you do not like what the Church teaches then be quiet - go somewhere else. You know nothing of why they teach what they do because if you did - you would fall in love with the Catholic faith. Since you want to do as you please, by all means do it - don't blame the Church because your views are different.
PKing,
I was raised Catholic and attended Catholic schools for 12 years, so I am well versed on the teachings of the Catholic Church. I wonder what is more immoral... forcing people to have children they cannot afford or do not want versus allowing people to make a choice to prevent pregnancy in a responsible way. I can stomach birth control use much easier than seeing a child living in poverty and/or abuse.
On the pedophile priests-the abuse of one child is one too many. The church has covered up this disease for years and knowingly allowed perpetraters ongoing access to children. I agree with you-teachers, parents, whoever, that knew about abuse and allowed it to go on are as guilty as the priests.
As a woman, I am not willing to belong to or support an organization that considers me second class at best based solely on my gender. I have witnessed the harm the Catholic Church's teachings have done to people in my family and my friends. Thankfully, I found the strength to break free of the brainwashing.
I would NEVER fall in love w/ the catholic cult. When was the last time you saw an alter call in a mass? saving souls? I have never heard that in their toutings..rather, tything, good works, helping and being charitable...these are their answers to get to heaven. For if you truly knew scripture you would know that the only way to heaven is through salvation in Jesus Christ. If you also knew scripture, you would know that wherever "2 or more are gathered in my name, there is my church". I am a believer, not religious. Religion won't get you anywhere but broke and abused, physically, mentally, emotionally and morally. Good luck to you and I pray that you find the Lord and salvation, PKing. I know where I am going when I die on this earth...do you? Do you go to confession? Why would you not ask for forgiveness directly from God instead of a man? hilarious. Of course there are 'rules' to clubs and organizations. This is not a club, nor an organization. It is a person's livelihood and the matter of their family size. I guess you are going to support all the poor catholic kids now, huh? The ones whose parents are not allowed to stop having babies or practice birth control? Thanks for that!
God loves and welcomes you iowaproud! Congratulations on being a 'completed' person!
meatgal, my reference to the club was only to help you understand that there are rules everywhere - you choose which ones you follow.
I know Scripture very well - I hear the entire Bible - no skipping verses we do not wnat to talk about - in a three year period. Every word in the Mass is from Scripture - just becasue I do not memorize it does not mean I do not hear, sing it, taste it and feel it.
It is interesting to me that you keep coming back to the same disagreement. I have seven neices whom got pregnant outside of marriage, and three have not married the fathers and all are depentant on some form of state help- NONE of them are Catholics!!!
Those girls that I have know thru the years that were Catholic and got pregnant have the assistance of Cahtolic charities as well as help from their families. So it is not JUST Catholics who use the welfare system - has nothing to do with what the Church teaches. Most Catholic contracept - that does not make it right or moral.
If you attended a Catholic Church you would see many young couples goin gback to having alot of children - they are not living in poverty.
In reality the teaching of the Catholic Church about women is beautiful - not sure what you were taught - unfortunately there is alot of things being taught by people who do not know what the Church teaches - including many Catholic High Schools. (http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/apost_letters/documents/hf_jp-ii_apl_15081988_mulieris-dignitatem_en.html) or Goggle The Dignity and Vocation of Women. go to the Vatican website.
YOur reference to the Pope being a Nazi is laughable - He is against war and abortion (whcich by the way is one of the consequences of failed contraception) - you know those things that kill. They are the direct opposites. How could you possibily compare them?
May God bless you beyond measure. And yes, I do know I am going to Heaven - I will have to spend time in Purgatory thou because i am a sinner even thou I know Jesus forgives me, I am still responsible for the actions I have taken in my life and must pay the consequences. I am not in the state of mortal sin, yet I am not holy enough to see God face to face after living on this earth - no one is.
Of all the nieces (7)in my family that have gotten pregnant out of wedlock and are dependent on the state - NONE of them are Catholic.
By going with the mentality that Jesus died for us so therefore we have to do nothing allows many to live their lives with no conscience - you can do anything - because you are saved because you walked up to the front of a church and claimed to give your life to Christ.
My parents had the foresight to have me Baptized - that is what makes me a child of God - if you knew your Scripture you would know that.
I am a child of God and as James says faith without works is dead. (Chpt 2:14-17)
The Church has every right - regardless of what we relative thinkers might believe- to expect someone who works for them to follow the tenants of their faith. If they choose not too, then go find a job elsewhere - that is the bottom line.
Baptism, good works, penance, none of these will get you to heaven. I am very familiar w/ the catholic cult and what it teaches it's many lost parishoners. I would NEVER want to even step foot in one, it's scary in there, all the idoltry, preaching in foreign language (how would you know what you are praying about unless you understand Latin fully?), praying to the virgin mary, taking communion? All of these things go against the teachings of Jesus regarding faith and salvation. It's not up to the chuch to decide whether or not I am a sinner or not. All are sinners and fall short of the Lord. Baptism doens't take away your sins and the sprinkling that is done to infants, who have no knowledge of sin other than being born w/ it inherently, doesn't save them either. You either are saved or you aren't. There is no stopping over point like purgatory, but if that's what you believe, I shall certainly pray for your lost soul! I love that you have the interest and you would be a HUGE voice for salvation through Christ, if you could only see the truth and not what the catholic cult has crammed down your throat and into your mind your whole life. By no means did I mean to imply that there aren't literally millions of poor folks getting assistance from the gov't. And it's not selective by religion or anything either. I'm sorry if it came out that way. I meant it as being a burden on the funding for NUMEROUS and multiple births that could have been avoided. I heard on the radio going home last night that the Duggars are ready to start having another pregnancy, their 20th child. They aren't catholic, they are believers and spiritual and it is what they belive also. I don't think it's appropriate for kids to raise kids and that is what is happening all over the country. I do not believe in abortion, I believe in adoption. There are many that cannot have children of their own and babies are going to be loved and cherished, as well as older children too. I am adopted and we adopted 2 and had 3 of our own. We could AFFORD them and we chose to do this. Not everyone can and I understand that. Try, just try to think beyond the catholic cult and realize that a church won't get you to heaven, ONLY YOU CAN DO THAT, by accepting Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior. Good Luck and may Jesus save your soul, when you are ready, willing and ask for salvation!
Obviously we have some very devout people posting here and each seems very sure that his views are the correct ones. However, it does point out why religion should never be mixed with government.
meatgal...how is it that you know...er...um...'think' you know so much about the Catholic faith...and then spew these untruths about it? You are GROSSLY underinformed/misinformed about Catholocism. It is apparently you who has been brain washed by some 'religious cult'. Before you spew more outright untruths about catholocism...pick up a book and read! You might start with "Catholocism for Dummies"...it is a very informative book...and while you're at it the Bible would also be a very good starting point! You say "Baptism, good works, penance, none of these will get you to heaven. I am very familiar w/ the catholic cult and what it teaches"... If you knew anything about the Catholic church, you would never say that Catholics say that these things get them to heaven! It is taught that if you are a good christian, you will do good works! ...and as for your comments about baptism...PUHLEEZE! Catholics are not the only denomination who perform baptisms! And...holy cow...no pun intended...WHAT IDOLATRY? And we don't 'pray to Mary...get your facts straight...and then when you would like to have an informed/educated conversation...get a hold of me....FYI...I have NOT been Catholic my whole life, so don't give me that 'crammed down your throat you whole life' garbage!!!
so when you say hail mary's your not praying to mary?
bdscobee, I never said that catholics were the ONLY ones that did anything and last I heard, a rosary is praying to mary? she can't help you, but good luck w/ that. Perhaps it's you that needs some information. Quite Clearly the Bible tells us that the only way to heaven is throught the Gospel of Jesus Christ and Salvation. Perhaps it's you that needs some education outside the catholic cult.
Try this website on for size and SERIOUSLY read it, check the scripture references and TRY not to take things out of context, ok?
I will pray for you soul as well! Good Luck to you and yours!
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Testimonies/witnessing.htm
Here is also a website LISTING all of the catholic/man made heresies for your review, again, try following along and REALLY reading the scripture reference and Pray to God about it, not a priest, whose actions COULD be questionable.
Thank you.
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/catholic_heresies-a_list.htm
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/assumption_of_mary_refuted.htm
and yet another site that if you scroll to the bottom, you will find all kinds of information about the catholic cult. Like it says there, it's not hard to get a catholic to believe THE TRUTH. It's hard to get one to leave the church.
Religion is Man seeking God. Spirituality is Man finding God.
bdscobee, I would LOVE to have coffee with you and witness my faith to you! Let me know if you would like to do the same. You can email me at regina_redneck@yahoo.com.
I don't believe in 'religion' as it is just man's laws and not that of the faithful and spiritual world of salvation through Jesus Christ.
Perhaps those other links left you needing more information so here is another website that I often refer to that references a lot of information in catechism teachings that are not correct, according to scripture.
http://www.christiananswers.net/evangelism/beliefs/catholicism.html
meatgal..meatgal...meatgal...either you are a REAL fast reader...or you are still uninformed... Go read the two books I told you to read, and THEN we can have an informed/educated discussion. Honey!! I spent 40 some odd years outside of the Catholic church...as a devout Lutheran. I don't fall into your stereotype lockstep cult mentality! I am educated about Christianity, and about wolves in sheeps clothng such as yourself. If you knew anything about Christianity, let alone Catholocism, you would know that it is ONLY the catholic church that can trace it's beginnings back to Simon Peter...you remember him....you know...that whole you will deny me three times before the cock crows guy. Catholics, as I said before DO NOT pray to Mary...only an uninformed hack would say that. Now...once you have read the two books...1) The Bible, and 2) Catholocism for Dummies...this conversation is over....until you have read these two books, you will always be opionated, uninformed and wrong!!!!!
Ouch! This is getting a bit testy, but no one fights better than religious zealots. Just look at all the wars, present time included, that have been fought over religion. Why can't we just agree that each person can follow his chosen god in the manner he chooses.
Hate to shake any foundations, but there may be a good argument that the Eastern Orthodox church was in attendance at the forming of the Christian church and was the ONLY Christian church until the Catholic church broke away. I am not interested in a big argument about this idea. Just wanted to point out that there are differing opinions about religion and that these opinions do not need to detract from your personal devoutness. To each his own.
So who died and made them judge? I thought in the christian way, that was someone else job? Glad I am a wiccian.
amen mala! I do not argue that the catholic cult was included in the 'original church' as it is...that is factual information, but that certainly doesn't make it something that God favors. Jesus hated the man made church laws and proof in fact is that the way to heaven is only through faith in Jesus Christ and accepting Him for salvation from our sins. I will continue to pray for all sinners that are not saved and God Bless You bdscobee! As for reading a book about catholicism and catechism...I ONLY need my Bible, but thank you just the same. Perhaps it's YOU that should put down the catechism? Again, God Bless you! The way I see it, you have heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ numerous times and refuse to accept it, so I shall pray for your soul.
Goodness meatgirl. Now, I know I have a lot of doubts in the Catholic church and if I even want to continue with it, but I would absolutely NEVER EVER tell anyone who was of a different religion how wrong and ignorant they are for being that religion. How on earth could you be a child of God and be so completely hateful? Yes, Catholics believe things that you do not believe, so do Buddhists, Jews, Muslims... etc. Are they all cults too? Who are you to disrespect people's religion so distastefully? I hope you find peace...
Up until 1930, *all* Protestant denominations agreed with the Catholic Church’s teaching condemning artificial contraception as sinful.
unifight84, where do you see that I say anyone is WRONG? Did I ever use that terminology? no, I did not. Did I offer links for information regarding the catholic cult? yes I sure did and if you are struggling w/ the catholic cult as a faith I would HIGHLY encourage you to study the information in the BIBLE, not a catechism book or from a wolf in sheep's clothing, which is what the Bible calls many ministers, priests, etc. I would also encourage you to pray for information in the form that God wants to send it to you, not a man, but God. I have total peace in my life and I have for a number of years, I pray often and I know I am saved. When I die, I KNOW I will go to heaven and meet my maker face to face. I do not fear this AT ALL. In fact, when my day is come, I am ready. Salvation is ONLY through faith in Jesus Christ, who died for our sins. It has NOTHING to do w/ works, baptism, money, stature, any of these things....it is given freely. These other things are all of man, not of God and salvation. There is no cost, no time, just faith will get you there. I will pray for your open heart and look forward to hearing of your journey w/ the Lord. It is very EASY to witness salvation through faith to a catholic. I love doing it and I have personally seen many catholics leave their cult and enter into a life of spirituality, NOT religion. I would NEVER allow a man sitting in a HUGE mansion, filled w/ idolatry to dictate how/when/where/why I should garner my faith. I would never pray on beads to a woman that was very blessed to have been given the gift of birthing my savior, Jesus Christ. I would never 'cross' myself in prayer, I would never EAT a wafer and call it the Lords supper. These are all things that go against the word of God and I would never do them. I will keep you in my prayers too and good luck w/ your pursuit of your faith.
I am not Catholic and rarely take their churches side in arguements but the fact that the government is overruling them makes me wonder what could be next.Employer insurance should be a perk that is negotiated as part of a salary package,not mandated by the state government.
Do you see me calling other religions a cult? You are providing links to prove why Catholicism will not lead you into heaven and reasons why to leave the church. I'd say that telling people they are wrong for being in that faith. I've seen a lot of your posts on here and I think you are extremely hateful, distasteful, and unclassy. You think that just having the grace of God will get you into heaven. Right. So in your way of thinking I could go on a killing spree, rob, beat, cheat my way through life, but as long as I have faith and believe Jesus is my savior you will go to Heaven? Yeah Catholics do believe in service work and following in the footsteps of Jesus with the way he would have acted. Why on earth is that so bad? Why would THAT not get my into heaven, but some heathen instead just because he claimed to be Christian? Yes, I have debated in leaving the Catholic faith because I do feel out of touch with it, but if I ever ended up like you, I'd rather stay a questioning Catholic. Good grief.
And you can preach to me all you want about the "correct" faith, you have totally turned me off by your way of approaching this, so I will not listen to you, and actually will strive to be opposite of you. Thanks for clearing that up! Crazy bible beaters!
This string is a sad commentary on how "religion" provokes anger and judgement of others. Jesus, who all Christians embrace as the son of God, when asked what a person needed to do to attain the Kingdom of Heaven stated very simply 'Love the Lord God with all you are, and your neighbor as yourself'. Why does mankind continue to complicate such a simple concept?? Look at Buddah, Ghandi, M.L. King, and other persons of peace. They lived by example. They did not attack those who did not believe as they did, but continued to demonstrate their principles by the way they lived.
Personally, I have grown to a place where organized religion does not work for me. But, it does for many people, including Catholics. If attending a church or reading the bible helps you be a better person, that is a good thing. But living a life of purpose and peace is a journey, not a competition. No religion or non-religion can't have all the definitive answers, that's where faith comes in. I wish we could all find a way to help each other be better human beings instead of condemning the methods.
iowaproud
+1
This is a great deal for the insurance company.The state is making employers pay for birth control coverage that might never be used.I hope copays or deductibles didn't go up to pay for this.
Nothing like religious intolerance/ignorance...
wow unifight, I didn't call you names but you sure did get upset and call me lots of names! How mature and God-like its that? I deal w/ things like this all the time, and for me, honestly, it's just another day in paradise if I make even ONE person think about their own salvation outside of man's law known as religion. I will pray for your soul and hope to see you someday in paradise. God Bless you! Jesus would LOVE to have you come to him in faith and ask him for forgiveness of your sins. In God's eyes, there is no LEVEL of sin, none better, none worse. It's just sin and we are all born w/ it. My sin is washed in the blood of Christ and therefore I am a born again believer and I am grateful that God gave me this wonderful blessing. Have a wonderful life and I hope it's a life in Christ. Just for the record, you don't know anything about me, who I am, where I work, what charitable things I may or may not do. What you know of me is someone that is oppinionated and honest to the point of pissing people off sometimes. I don't apologize for speaking the truth and I would NEVER back down on something I believe in, especially something this important? Why would anyone NOT accept Christ, it's a FREE GIFT!
Again, I am glad I am not you.
Not trying to start an argument here, just an honest question.
Why does using birth control mean that person is immoral? I will admit I do not know much about Catholicism, so if someone would help me out on that point it would be greatly appreciated.
Sparkette, Catholics see birth control as immoral because it interfers with God as the creator of life. Sex is only supposed to be in marriage, and for the purpose of creating life. Any method of preventing that is wrong in the eyes of the Church.
sparkette, as unifight said it best...."wrong in the eyes of the CATHOLIC CHURCH"...again, man's law, not God's. It's all on how you CHOOSE to interpret your faith, whether it be biblical and spiritual or of man's laws in a church. As in all things, I would suggest soulful prayer to GOD, not a priest or a minister. God will provide the answers that are perfect for YOU and yours.
And unifight, I'm glad I'm not you...why? because I am saved!
Thank you unifight. That was a clear answer and it actually helps in my understanding. Of course, it brings up more questions, but this is not the place… :-)
I swore that I wasn’t going to answer meatgal, but I just can’t help myself…
meatgal, I asked about the Catholic Church and that is how unifight answered. I wasn’t looking for a rant about the Catholic Church, yet somehow I got one. My religious views are hard to categorize, and are rather complicated but one this is certain; I am not a Christian and I do not believe the bible is more than a simple, and flawed, guide. One of the reasons for my beliefs is because of people like you. The total lack of respect and the hate that is flung in the name of God is mind blowing. All I hear is ‘I believe this way and if you don’t then blah blah blah…hate hate hate.’ It really doesn’t matter what religion a person claims, I hear it from all religions…about all religions. Doesn’t your bible tell you to love one another? Isn’t that part of the Ten Commandments? ‘Love Thy Neighbor As Thyself.’ And yet I get a totally insane rant about how the person that answered my specific question is wrong and going to hell because what they believe is different from what you believe.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. If that is religion I want no part of it.
sorry sparkette, but I don't tout religion, I don't believe in it and I'm sorry if you felt it came off that way. I felt that I was merely pointing out the difference between letting a 'church' rule your or anyone's decision making versus asking God to lead and guide you in the decision that is best for you and yours. Man's law, the church, is very confusing to me and it's made that way to serve a purpose. Confusion is the touting of the evil involved. Simple fix, pray on it and you will get the right answers. I am not trying to fling hate or anything of the kind. There are literally millions of lost souls and I pray for every one of them daily, often more times a day than some ppl use the restroom. It is the non-believers though that will always try to rattle the cage when it involves hearing or reading the truth. I will pray for your soul as well and good luck to you in your search for your own spirituality. God Bless You too!
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."
Matthew 7:13-14
Sparkette, I wanted to thank you for what you wrote. I am baptized and confirmed Catholic, as that is how my parents brought me up. I am nonpracticing however, and sometimes find myself actually angry at what the Catholic Church believes. I've entertained the thought of searching for other communities that fit me more, but I am almost sure that organized religion is just not for me. I feel like everything I research and learn is completely out of touch with my personal beliefs and with the modern culture. You said it right when people like meatgal shove their beliefs in your face and put you down for not feeling that way. People like that say they are children of God, yet I find them to be some of the most judgemental, blind, small minded people I've ever met. I feel living my life with dignity, respect, proper morals and values, and good friends and family is what makes me the happiest. Not chastizing people for a lack of faith in something that may not even exist.
unifight, I am NOT putting anyone down and how dare you say that I am. Just because I don't AGREE w/ the catholic cult and I speak my mind about it, doesn't mean that I am shoving anything down anyone's throat. If ONLY ONE person hears the message of salvation as a result of me speaking out, then I am doing what I am supposed to do scripturally. It means that I am a believer and I am going to heaven and I pray that EVERYONE can do the same. I don't care if someone doesn't like me or my faith, there were many that didn't like the path that Jesus professed either and that pathway is narrow, as I have quoted by scripture to you. I pray you find the correct 'home' for your faith and spirituality also and I am glad that you find the 'organized religion of churches' not to your liking. That is the first step in the eye opening. God Bless You too.
unifight, you sound like you’re starting on the same path I followed about 10 years ago. I don’t go to church because I haven’t found one that doesn’t spew hate in some form or another…albeit some more mild than others. My son calls me a Deitist, where I believe in God but not any of the other trappings that go along with organized religion. Good luck and I hope you find the kind of peace I did once I got my beliefs down pat.
meatgal, I’m sorry I took your posts the wrong way, but if you go back and re-read them you have to admit they can be taken as judgmental and kind of ranting. This actually surprised me because you and I usually seem to think alike.
There is HUGE peace w/ faith and to be able to live that life and feel that peace from within is a wonderful gift, a blessing even. I don't worry unnecessarily about things, I have learned to let things go. I don't have control over anything or anyone but myself and to that I am grateful. Everyone's path is different, the end result is different, too. I just always pray that more and more folks listen w/ their hearts, not their ears and don't rely on a man on earth to fulfill your forever after.
Within this article, I found and felt that it was more about spending/making the money on the insurance and then having the ability to threaten (sort of) an employee who chooses to use some form of birth control. I think it's a sad state of affairs when this kind of control/coersion is allowed and within an insurance venue for employees. I realize that these employees signed an employment agreement to follow the 'rules' of the catholic cult and that is what it is. It's just a shame that holding a job can be controlled by a religion's man made rules. I feel very sad for these women and men and their families.
I did hear again on the news the other night that the Duggars are ready to start another baby, #20. I have to shake my head at this train of thought. They are not catholic but they also feel that the giving of life is up to God and they prove it year after year after year. This, in their family, leads to their children raising and caring for the younger ones, forcing children to grow up far too fast, imo.
I guess it's hard for me to wrap my head around a religion that has gay priests and pedophiles lurking and yet they can control whether or not a parishoner/employee has kids?
You are right sparkette, I did rant and did it again here. I guess I just feel strongly about some things and I say so. Apologies as I never meant to piss anyone off, just wanted my voice to be heard.
Does this warning extend to women who use birth control for reasons other than as a contraceptive? I use birth control to control cyst growth and know many other young women who are on birth control because of cysts.
meatgal - there are other forms of family planning other than artificial birth control. There are many Christians of every stripe that have found God calling them to practice. The Catholic church isn't instructing anyone to have as many children as possible. Instead it teaches that couples should pray for guidance.
cardfan, but they are also saying that if these women/couples use the contraceptives, covered in their health insurance, that they are at risk of losing their job. How is that NOT the church telling them how, when, where to have their children. The church, not God. I realize there are many dif methods of birth control, I am a grown woman w/ grown children and grandchildren. My issue is a cult holding reign over employees and letting them know that the benefit is there, but don't you dare use it.
meatgal - Please re-read my post. There is an option to plan family size that is Biblical and not against the Catholic faith.
You are attempting to say that the Catholic church's teaching precludes any type of family planning, not just contraception. That is completely false. If you wish to disagree with the teaching on artificial birth control, that is certainly your right, but don't attempt to misrepresent what that teaching is.
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